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Yet again, Roosevelt's Germany by Fenn-O-maniC Yet again, Roosevelt's Germany by Fenn-O-maniC
Must... make... maps...

After few painful hours I managed to make this, another alt. history map where US President Roosevelt's plan to divide Germany after WW2 was introduced.

Made with Inkscape.
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:icondak-rommel:
DAK-Rommel Featured By Owner Edited Jun 20, 2015
God damn it, Roosevelt, why did you have to die just a bit the war was over! Couldn't you wait until after this? I think I've fainted. 
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Lol
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:iconarmouredwarrior:
ArmouredWarrior Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2015  New Deviant
A state, likely Prussia or perhaps Bavaria, would probably start pressing reunification after a couple of decades. Prussia would have the historical precedent and population to make real strides in that. Bavaria would have a clear shot at Austria though and then perhaps reunification. However perhaps this Germany would've just become two or three larger states with the smaller ones absorbed, fighting for dominance. 

In terms of IRL, Poland really loses out in this one. Did the Allies still concede to the Soviets here? 

Relative to governments, I would predict Prussia to be a staunchly Anti-Communist State, allied with the West. Austria and Saxony are the only two who I could see being Communist. 

Overall: Prussia would probably win here, especially with Silesia in their hands. Hesse and Saxony would probably be buffer states between Prussian-Dominated North Germany and Bavarian-Dominated South Germany. 
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I assume so too. Some kind of reunification movement would probably have born.

And yes, Poland lost its Eastern territories. The original plan followod the real life Eastern borders but I think either Königsberg or Lublin would have been given to Poland.

Hard to say, would depend a lot on possible occupations and such. If the new German states weren't occupied it would have been just a play between the influences from West and East.

Yup, Prussia got a pretty good deal here. It would have most probably tried to unify with Hannover to gain access to the North Sea, and maybe getting back Rhineland after its international zone status ended. Bavaria, being the other big state in the former Germany, could be standing against full German unification by Prussia, so leaving Saxony and Hesse as buffer states would make a lot of sense.
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:iconarmouredwarrior:
ArmouredWarrior Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2015  New Deviant
Judging form the external borders on this map, Poland did lose Konigsberg. 

Do we have any populations for this?

And yeah for Prussia I would expect them to be anti-Communist on the part of being so close to the Warsaw Pact but also because of historical precedents. Who knows, if they had an expansionist leader they may seek to return to pre-1866 borders and then perhaps reunify Germany. 

I don't really think that unification could happen militarily without either NATO or Pact intervention. Even peacefully, the neighboring European states might be a little afraid of a reunified and powerful Germany. 
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
My map is just based on the original plan to divide Germany so I didn't think about whole Poland thing.

Sadly I don't.

Both are very possible. Two, North and South German states would be pretty possible scenario, I'd imagine them developing bit separated identeties, kind of rivalry with each other.
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:iconarmouredwarrior:
ArmouredWarrior Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2015  New Deviant
Prussia's population would probably be around 20 million (Based on their 1920's pop and East Germany's pop). Bavaria's would be around 15-20 million. I have a feeling that Bavaria would form a Communist South German State (CSGS) and Prussia would form a Democratic North German State (DNGS).
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:iconnomadicsky:
NomadicSky Featured By Owner May 13, 2015
Better outcome than our world.
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner May 14, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Depends on who you ask
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:iconarmouredwarrior:
ArmouredWarrior Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2015  New Deviant
Poland for example would disagree. 
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Indeed
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:iconnealman11:
NealMan11 Featured By Owner May 1, 2015
What are the white areas?
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner May 1, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
International zones
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:iconjordytheredfox:
Jordytheredfox Featured By Owner Mar 12, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Poor Prussia :(
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Mar 12, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well at least it would still exists unlike in OTL
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:iconjordytheredfox:
Jordytheredfox Featured By Owner Mar 12, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah :/
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:iconkitfisto1997:
KitFisto1997 Featured By Owner Nov 20, 2014  Hobbyist Filmographer
Prussia!
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Nov 20, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes!
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:iconludwiggirl:
LudwigGirl Featured By Owner Oct 14, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
woooooow :wow:
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:iconkraut007:
Kraut007 Featured By Owner Apr 10, 2014
Lucky, this did not happen.
Still an interesting thought, with Hessia,Prussia, Bavaria, Hannover, Saxony and Austria becoming  separate nations again. 
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Apr 10, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, indeed.
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2014  Student Digital Artist
I just love how people feel the need to explain the fundamental parts of a map to the person who made it. 
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
When you think about it, it happens a lot.
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner May 5, 2014  Student Digital Artist
Yes! On most of the maps of Texas I make there always seems to be that one person that says "What an interesting map. Did you know that Texas actually was an independent country at one time?" and I'm like "Why no I didn't already know that Texas was an independent country despite the fact that I've lived in Texas my entire life, have been making maps of Texas for years, and included the exact dates of actual events from Texas history in the description. Thanks for informing me!"
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:iconcheeseburgertom:
CheeseburgerTom Featured By Owner May 13, 2014
I do what I can.  No worries.
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:iconzeonista:
Zeonista Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2014
This is probably from the Morgenthau plan, right?
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
No, Roosevelt's plan.
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:iconzeonista:
Zeonista Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2014
Morgenthau was FDR's advisor who proposed converting Germany into a de-industrialized buffer zone. The many partitions and the missing boundary between the Allied occupiers is what made me think of it.
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I've heard of it.
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:icondanimars52:
DaniMars52 Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013
Finnish traitor the next time that Russia attack you we're not going to help you!
("he censure my comments")
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
We have traited who now :?

And BTW, no-one actually helped us then...
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:icondanimars52:
DaniMars52 Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013

Germany will help to you almost from the beginning, after the winter war,  in Continuation war during the German troops were always basing with you to defend you from the Soviet Union, while Washinthon was saying that Finland were a danger to the security of the United States and wanted to sell you to the Soviet Union to win his war, not yours war.

 

United States;

The United States had demanded Finland to immediately suspend all aggressive operations in Soviet territory and withdraw its troops behind the 1939 border line case Finland could hold, as in the present and in the future, friendship with the United States . In addition, Finnish operations were classified by the United States of direct threat to U.S. security.

 

Finish Goverment;

The Finnish Government rejects any compromise that could force suspend military operations and declares, in a categorical manner, which will continue the war until safety is assured of Finland.

 

The situation in Finland, as neighboring nation of the Soviet Union, requires a constant craving for self-defense against the Soviet conquest. What would be the fate of the Finnish nation itself the people themselves would not have guaranteed your safety? The character of the struggle of Finland does not change at all by the fact that you try to destroy and occupy the enemy attack positions even though they are beyond their borders. Finland wants to finish the fight, but only when the danger is threatening their existence and have created lasting security guarantees.

 

The Finnish Government can not consider the view that the Finnish military in any way constitute a threat to U.S. security. Finland believes that the small peoples also have the right to life and the right to defense. Finland will continue the war until peace is assured his laborious and can not enter into any agreement that means compromising the security of the country's interests by interrupting military operations that are absolutely justified.

United States response;

For his part, Secretary of State Cordell Hull in Washington has made the following statements to the Media:

"By rejecting the proposal of the United States to explore the Possibility of peace With The Soviet Union, Finland has avoided the real issue at stake. Many Americans do not understand why Finnish forces Make Their contribution to the cause of Hitler."

(The real issue at stake is that the United States donīt care Finland, or their interests, or their citizens. But this is not so for the Europeans and for the European Union) (only the logic and the effort can make us progress. Anyone would be tempted to think of fantastic American heroes immune to bullets illustrated and strong with perfect bronzed, and that he expel out all your problems. But that is only our imagination and Hollywood)


SilverFoxOperation;

lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CL-…

lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IVU…

lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tfv…

lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Wib…

lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fE7…


ArticFoxOperation;

lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CL-…

lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ug0…


( I hope you appreciate the effort. because, I speak bad English, I had a hard time translating it and took all afternoon collecting information )

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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You used all that time for searching for those but not telling why you're posting crap on my deviations and page...
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:icondanimars52:
DaniMars52 Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013
you censored my comments
Reply
:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, because they didn't make any sense and you spammed them all over my pages. Why?
Reply
:icondanimars52:
DaniMars52 Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013
That comments not, my Replys to DaFreak47
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Where?
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(2 Replies)
:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Do Prussia and Saxony have communist governments?
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:iconarmouredwarrior:
ArmouredWarrior Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2015  New Deviant
Kinda (really incredibly) late response, but I would think that Prussia would be definitely Anti-Communist, with perhaps Austria or Saxony going red. 
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2015  Student Digital Artist
I'm just thinking in terms of occupation zones. When Germany was divided into separate occupation zones after WWII, the resulting east-west split occurred along those lines. I assume that these six states were occupied as they were in the OTL, with Prussia, Saxony, and parts of Austria being occupied by the Soviets, who installed communist governments in the first two and brought them into the Warsaw Pact. I'm pretty sure that Fenn-O-maniC made a Europe map a few years ago that had exactly that, but its flexible. 
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:iconarmouredwarrior:
ArmouredWarrior Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2015  New Deviant
I think Prussia would be Anti-Communist for reasons I've said before, but to take from prior comments:

"And yeah for Prussia I would expect them to be anti-Communist on the part of being so close to the Warsaw Pact but also because of historical precedents (AKA wars with Russia and absolute monarchy). Who knows, if they had an expansionist leader they may seek to return to pre-1866 borders and then perhaps reunify Germany."
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2015  Student Digital Artist
It all just depends on whether or not these states were occupied post-WWII. If not, then you'd probably be correct in your analysis, but I wouldn't bet on it. It seems much more likely, given the OTL situation, that the Soviets would not have pulled out of eastern Germany and would have instead installed pro-soviet, satellite governments in Prussia and Saxony for the duration of the Cold War. I expect that the Prussian people probably would be anti-communist and seeks to reunify Germany (eventually), but I don't see this as any sort of deterrent to the USSR's agenda. 
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I don't know. Propably.
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Okay, cuz their western borders coincide with OTL East Germany, and since I would guess the "Iron Curtain" still applies here, I would think they would lie within the Soviet sphere.
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I guess that would depend on Soviets.
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2013  Student Digital Artist
They deffinetly wouldnt have said no
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:iconfenn-o-manic:
Fenn-O-maniC Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Of course. However I'm not sure did Roosevelt plan to occupai the German States or something.
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Hmmm, did the Roosevelt Plan still call for deindustrialization? If so then the German states would still have to have a considerably foreign force in their borders. Even if it didnt, the USSR continued to occupy its "allies" when the rest of the world had other plans.
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